52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 37th Parliament

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Issue 66

Wednesday, June 11, 2003
1:30 p.m.

The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, LaPierre, Lawson, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, *Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, LaPierre, Lawson, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, *Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe

PRAYERS

WRITTEN DECLARATION OF ROYAL ASSENT

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that the following communication had been received:

RIDEAU HALL

June 11, 2003

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Ian Binnie, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of the Governor General of Canada, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 11th day of June, 2003, at 8:25 a.m.

Yours sincerely,

Barbara Uteck

Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa

Schedule

Bills Assented To

Wednesday, June 11, 2003

An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act (Bill C-9, Chapter 9, 2003)

An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act (Bill C-15, Chapter 10, 2003).

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Associations

The Honourable Senator Bacon tabled the following:

Report of the Mission of a Delegation from the Canadian Branch of the Canada-France Inter-Parliamentary Association to Paris, France, from June 9 to 16, 2002, for the French Parliamentary Elections.—Sessional Paper No. 2/ 37-498.

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A point of order was raised with respect to the order of reference given to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs yesterday concerning Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals).

Debate.

SPEAKER'S RULING

Senator Lynch-Staunton's point of order, as I understand it, is that the proceeding yesterday did not reflect the intent of this chamber. He relies on the wording of the motion that we adopted, which is that the question now before the Senate be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs and that the committee report no later than Thursday, June 12. The word ``question'' in that motion refers to the motion of Senator Carstairs, which reads:

That the Senate concur in the amendment made by the House of Commons to its amendment 4 to the Bill C- 10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals);

That the Senate do not insist on its amendments 2 and 3 to which the House of Commons has disagreed; and

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

We then got into a discussion of intent, and I have the benefit of having heard pretty much all of the exchanges that have occurred here in the course of debate on this matter. Even so, I believe it is my obligation to interpret the motion in accordance with the plain meaning rule.

Can I read into it more than it says? For instance, can I read into it that the question, which was Senator Carstairs' motion that was referred to the committee, is more than that; that being those matters in which the House did not concur? I cannot. I do not believe that the message is included, and in that respect, Senator Lynch-Staunton and Corbin and some others are correct.

What I was asked to do yesterday was to answer the question as to whether or not the motion that was put before us was a proper one, and one that was in accordance with all of our rules and practices. I ruled that it was, even though, as has been brought out in discussion here, it did not follow the past practice where reference is made to both the question and the message.

I add parenthetically to Senator Lynch-Staunton that Senator Doody's motion, Senator Graham's motion, and Senator Kinsella's motion, all of which he referred to, were in essentially the same situation, where we had two motions. In none of those cases was the first motion disposed of before the matter was referred to committee. Therefore we are not in a different situation now than we were during those past practices that he has referred to in his argument.

Accordingly, I rule that what we have done is correct. In terms of the point of order, I cannot interpret in it that which, under its plain meaning, does not exist. Having said that, I wish to add the comment that our rules apply to proceedings in this place. The rules of committees, unless they are mandated by this place to the committee through direction, are for the committee. The committee would be the master of its proceedings in terms of what it took into consideration in fulfilling what it is that the Senate has asked it to do, and that is study Senator Carstairs' motion.

To sum up, the motion, in terms of the issue of order, stands as it is. There is nothing I can do as Speaker to read into it more than is indicated by the plain wording of the motion. I do not need to comment on the regularity of the motion because I have already done that, as Senator Carstairs observed. I ruled that it was in order, and that we have done nothing out of order. Nor have we breached any of our rules or practices of parliamentary procedure in doing what we did.

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At 2:53 p.m. the sitting was suspended.

At 2:56 p.m. the sitting resumed.

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With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Banks moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe:

That the Message from the House of Commons concerning Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), be now referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs; and

That the Committee report no later than Thursday, June 12, 2003.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-25, An Act to modernize employment and labour relations in the public service and to amend the Financial Administration Act and the Canadian Centre for Management Development Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Stratton for the Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Morin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, for the second reading of Bill C-31, An Act to amend the Pension Act and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Morin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gauthier, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Ordered, That all Senate Committees scheduled to sit today have power to sit while the Senate is sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

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Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-39, An Act to amend the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Parliament of Canada Act.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C.:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs be authorized to examine and report on the implications of including, in legislation, non-derogation clauses relating to existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada under s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982; and

That the Committee present its report no later than December 31, 2003.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Banks for the Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Reports of Committees

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

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With leave,

The Senate reverted to Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations.

The Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, respecting its participation at the meeting of the APF Parliamentary Affairs Committee, held in Sofia, Bulgaria, from May 17 to 21, 2003.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-499.

Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.

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With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C.

That the Senate adjourn at pleasure to reassemble at the call of the Chair later this day.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 3:37 p.m. the sitting was adjourned during pleasure.)

At 6:43 p.m. the sitting resumed.

MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and the Income Tax Act (political financing), to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Report of the Chief of the Defence Staff for 2002-2003. —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-495.

Report of the Canadian International Trade Tribunal entitled ``Reconsideration of Recommendation Made in Review No. TA-2002-001 Regarding Certain Textile Products Imported by Les Collections Shan Inc.'', dated May 26, 2003, pursuant to the Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act, S.C. 1988, c. 65, s. 54.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-496.

Reports of the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37- 497.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 6:44 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on National Finance

The name of the Honourable Senator Phalen substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Furey (June 11).

Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples

The name of the Honourable Senator Fraser substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Gill (June 11).

Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

The name of the Honourable Senator Stratton substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Buchanan (June 11).

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